The Truth About Picky Eaters and What Moms Can Do | Kiyah Duffey | Work Like a Mother Podcast, Episode 58

Marina Tolentino sits down with Dr. Kiyah Duffey, a nutrition expert, entrepreneur, and mom of three, to tackle one of the hottest parenting topics: how to raise kids with a healthy relationship with food. With a PhD from UNC Chapel Hill and years of research featured in outlets like NPR, Good Morning America, and O Magazine, Dr. Duffey combines science-backed advice with relatable, real-life mom wisdom.

From managing picky eaters to simplifying your grocery trips, this episode dives into practical tips for busy moms. You’ll learn:

• How to decode food labels and shop smarter.
• The surprising number of times kids need to try a new food before liking it.
• The secret to modeling healthy eating habits (spoiler: it starts with you!).

Dr. Duffey also shares her journey as the founder of Kizingo Kids, a brand revolutionizing mealtime with products designed to empower kids to feed themselves. Whether you're navigating toddler tantrums over veggies or figuring out how to balance convenience and health, this episode is packed with actionable takeaways.

Mentioned in this Episode
It's Not About the Broccoli, Dina Rose
Kizingo

Kiyah Duffey
https://drkiyahduffey.com/
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Marina Tolentino
https://www.marinatolentino.com/
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Transcript

0:00

How do I feel about food and my body? And to be honest with that and then decide, is that something that I want to carry forward or might I want to Change that? Over 30,000 parents are Googling, what should I feed my kid? It's our job to make sure that the foods that are around and are available are the kinds of foods that we are okay with our kids making the choice to eat. Everybody has to eat. And we all want to know how to do this so that we can be healthy. You buy these pastries and they're good for three months. Like that's not normal. Foreign. Today I have the one and only Kaya Duffy, who is an entrepreneur, a speaker and a doctor mom to three beautiful kids ages 15 to 11. So she's got her hands full. And in this episode, you're going to learn exactly how busy, health conscious moms can help our kids to have a better relationship with food than we do. Dr. Kaya Duffy is a leading expert in nutrition and health and she holds a PhD from UNC Chapel Hill and is widely regarded for scientific contributions to understanding the relationship between diet, obesity and heart disease. Her research served as a basis for statewide nutrition policies and has been featured in national media outlets including npr, Good Morning America, USA Today, and Men's Health and O Magazine. And after having her first baby and seeing very few products on the market that promoted healthy behaviors, she knew that she needed to do something about it. So she launched Kazingo, an international seven figure brand that creates mealtime products specifically designed to promote healthy eating habits. So this is a conversation we can all benefit from. Welcome to the show, Dr. Kaya. Oh, thank you so much. Yes. And please just call me Kaya. Okay. Well, doctor, you're so grateful. Yeah, yeah, I'm very excited to be here. I love talking about this. Yeah, this conversation is so needed and it's just something that it's in our face every single day, more than three times a day. Right. Like we're, every time we go down to eat, there's some kind of power struggle or something happening. So I think this is really going to help the moms who are going through those phases of life. Right. Um, so I mean, for me, I'm always thinking like, well, it's coming from my own perspective and my own personal experiences and I'm trying to do my best, but what's a common mistake? Or like just things you see constantly and you hear that are like, oh, if only we could do that better when we're at a meal time. Like, what is it our vocabulary or like, what's some of the big things? I. This is such a great question. And one of the, one of the big things which can sometimes feel maybe too big, but we can take it in small pieces that you just alluded to is the fact that we are all coming from some kind of food past we have and come to our mothering with a relationship that we have developed over time with food. And if we aren't careful at really asking ourselves, is this the kind of relationship that I want to give my kids. Yeah. And for them to, to further develop with their, with their relationship with food if we're not careful and really asking ourselves, you know, is this what I want to do? We will do it without thinking. And so one of the big keys is really just to say what is how do I feel about food and my body? And to be honest with that, the response to that and our thoughts to that and then decide is that something that I want to carry forward or might I want to change that? And so that's one thing is really just to look at your own past and understand. And that doesn't mean that, you know, just because you were raised on a certain kind of food that someone somewhere is telling you is not healthy anymore. To me, it doesn't mean that we stop eating those things. It just means that we do that deliberately and mindfully and that we're fully aware that this is a choice that we're making. So that's one thing. I think the other thing we can do better for ourselves and for our kids is to give ourselves a little bit more grace. Oh, always. This is. So I did the math on this recently. If you started feeding your kids from the moment they turned 6 months old until the day they turned 18 and you fed them breakfast, lunch and dinner, forget about all those snacks. Yeah. You just gave them those three meals. Over that time period, you would be on the hook for preparing 18,690 meals. Yeah. So that is a lot. That is a lot of prep, planning, cleanup, you know, you name it. And, and we actually, I know it feels like we have a tiny little bit of. And I know it can feel like every single meal is important and matters and that there are really, there are long term implications to what happens in those meals. But we actually do have a lot more time than we think we do to influence our kids relationship with food. And so it's okay if you make something and nobody wants to eat it or they're upset or it doesn't go as planned. We really, we do have more time than we think and so to give ourselves a little bit of grace and patience through this process because it's. There are a lot of opportunities. Those are two big ones. No, that's really good. It just makes me reflect back on my own childhood and I'm like, how many meals do I actually remember? You know, not that many. Like really, it's like maybe the specialty dishes that we loved and then the holidays. That's kind of it. You forget about all the snack times and things that moms did for us. Right. So our kids aren't going to remember every single meal either. That's a huge like, really, it's off our back. Is there any been any data reflecting changes in kids diets over the last generation that's been impactful for you? Like any recent studies you've seen or. Yeah, yeah. You know, no. I think that a lot of this has made its way into popular press. So it's not just out in the nutrition literature, but our diets, generally speaking, among Americans in particular, really have tended towards a greater consumption of processed foods and in particular things like sugary beverages. I mean, the predominance of consumption of sugar sweetened drinks is really, it's really powerful to look at those trends and more and more kids are eating that those foods at younger and younger ages. And that's not to say that there aren't pockets that aren't doing that and that, you know, I mean, I, I fully believe, I firmly believe that all foods save for a few really super highly processed ingredients and additives and things that just aren't needed in food. I think that everything can have its place in a healthy diet. It really depends on how much we're eating those and in what settings and kind of how we think about what we're eating. So I don't think that soda is evil and you should never let your kids drink it. But I do think we need to really do that very mindfully because it is clear that there has been an upward trend in consumption and that that is having and can have some negative consequences for long term health. Sure. And just on us too. But like as the parents. Right. And so what do our kids do? They do what their parents do. And so I think it's a good way to look in the mirror. If you don't like how your kids are eating, maybe we should look at our own plates and cups. You know, I think that's a great one. And I'm just trying to think too through like phases of life so my kids are 4 year old and 9 year old right now, so they're still young, you know, But I remember like I would pack a healthy lunch for my son when he was going to second grade. And then what do they do at lunch? They trade snacks. So even though I pack him a healthy lunch, he's trading for hot Cheetos. And I'm like, it's backfiring. What am I doing wrong? Right. And then with the little one and I just feel like it's a constant, like can I have this every morning? Like can I have chips for breakfast? Can I have candy at 10 o'clock in the morning? And it's just a constant like feeling like bad cop. How are we trying to like build these foundations? I guess as for young elementary age children to make better choices, is there like a good thing you have for that? Yeah, I, this is where I really turn to and I really like Ellen Satter's division of responsibility for thinking about how to do this with your kids. And so what this says is that it is a parent's job to decide what foods are available, when we can eat and when we're offering these things. And so really that suggests to your point just now, it's our job to make sure that the foods that are around and are available are the kinds of foods that we are okay with our kids making the choice to eat. And it's our kids job. And this is one of the things that I've had to learn, especially as my kids have gotten older and are more capable not only of making these their own decisions, but of taking their allowance money to go down to the store and you know, buy their own food, that it's really, it's their job to decide how much of what we're offering they want to eat. And so this gets back to the importance again of making sure that the foods that are in the house are foods that you're comfortable with your kids eating and saying to them it's not snack time right now, it's not time for us to eat. But these are the foods that you can have choices of when it is snack time. And it's also in modeling behavior, you know, as you said, if we are reaching for vegetables and hummus as a snack instead of something else, you know, our kids will, whether they make that choice immediately or not, they will observe that and they will start to internalize that. So I, I think that that Ellen Satter's, her framework there is really, it can be really useful for what resources does she Have. There's a great website. Ellen Satter. Yeah. Never heard of her, but I'll look her up. That's awesome. It's fantastic. Yeah. The other thing I would say is, you know, I do a lot of talking to my kids. In fact, I've done a few interviews with my 11 year old. Who's my most vocal at this point. You know, what is it like to have me constantly saying things like, you know, don't take the bag of chips, please put some in a bowl. Like, this is what a serving size is. This is why there's a serving size. This is what it means. You know, these are. This is why I'm inviting you to please make sure that you have at least two of these food groups on your plate when you're making lunch. I do a lot of talking with them about it. You know, kids can understand this stuff and, and you are giving them language to use. So that's, you know, they're learning as you go. It's also helping them to understand and be able to articulate their own experiences with food. And so I find that can be really useful as well. Yeah. And as you're saying that, I'm also just thinking like, man, there's so many things I kind of want to do in my kitchen now. Like in the inside of the cabinet. I kind of want like good phrase to ask them and like prompt questions and thinking. But absolutely. I mean, I find myself listening to podcasts and then I end up skewing all this research to my 9 year old and he's like, I could care less. You know, that's not really transforming his thoughts. But I think asking really thought provoking questions can help them, like reflect. Like, hey, is this really good for me? Does my body actually want these products? We do practice reading ingredients a lot, which I want to go into a little bit later. Hey ladies, real quick. If you are looking for a mentor, I just wanted to remind you that I offer mentorship to entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs. So if you're someone who has a never ending to do list and you're smiling out of control and feel like your business doesn't have a track plan, I want to work with you every single week for a month at a time. It's super simple. But I come from over 10 years of experience doing this myself and now I'm willing to give that information back to people. So I've mentored real estate agents, I've mentored wedding photographers, I've mentored other business owners and they've come from a place of overwhelm mostly. And they really just needed clarity and a couple of action steps to move the needle. And we've seen Gigantum leaps and bounds in their business. Like I can't even tell you. So if you're interested and you want to know what that looks like, I want you to go to marina tolentino.com and there's a calendar link there to do a 15 minute discovery call with me just to see if we're a good vibe check to make sure we're on the same page. And I would love to work with you one on one to really boost your business to the next level. Let's dive back into. You had shared on your media kit that over 30,000 parents are Googling, what should I feed my kid? Like, why is this so confusing for us? I know, it's crazy, isn't it? Yeah, I think, I think. And for me, even despite having a degree in this and studying it for years before I had kids, it feels like a really consequential decision and choice and part of our day. And it feels like, it feels like you could easily do it wrong. At least it did for me. I could give them the wrong food or I could give them the wrong message about food. And that is equally teaching them that something is bad and then they develop a negative relationship with that, whether it is bad or not, or even labeling things as good and bad, as well as giving them messages that they need to be afraid. And then there are consequences, especially for young women about being afraid of food and not wanting to eat food and body image. And I mean, it just like it just snowballs. And all of a sudden we're not just talking about what should I give them for dinner, we're talking about all kinds of other things. I think in the United States as well, there's been some increasingly advice around how do you feed kids, especially when they're little, is focused on the prevention of and avoidance of food allergies rather than getting them accustomed to experiencing food. And the joy comes from that. And so I think that also, again, there's a weight to that if that is your primary goal. And there's, you know, everybody has to eat and we all want to know how to do this so that we can be healthy. And that means that there is all kinds of advice out there and advice that may or may not be helping you in your particular situation, in your particular kids reach your goals. And so it just, I think it feels overwhelming really quickly. Yeah, I mean, that's a really good Point is, there has been so much research that's come out, but it's created this, like, fear bias around food, right? So I don't want my kitten to go into shock. I don't want to, like, infect everybody else or whatever that is. And then at the same time, we're always thinking, well, I want to do this balance of what tastes good and what's healthy. Well, why can't it be both? And I think as moms especially, we overanalyze everything so much. Like, without even it coming out of our mouth, we're having 50 conversations in our head already, like, is this good? Right? And just to simplify it, it's like, does it come from nature? That's like question number one, right? Did this come from something that grew on a plant? That's always like a great option to start with. Now if we're going to level it up and it's going to be added ingredients, let's just read the ingredients, right? Instead of seeing, like, oh, it says healthy or natural must be good for me. Those are marketing terms that are everywhere now. And we think that means it's like sticker approved, right? So talk to me about, like, the shopping experience. How can we equip moms to shop smarter, shop better, more efficiently too? Instead of reading 50 things, let's just go to, like, the two items, like, what tools do they need to have? So your point about does it come from plants? I mean, I think is this a thing that I can find in the world or with minimal processing, make myself, you know, some ingredients that get mixed in a certain way, or do I need to buy Texa. Texa Hydro? I'm not even making a real word, but, you know, oxy in order to produce the food. I think shopping and the exterior aisles, the perimeter of a grocery store and making that the primary focus and at least starting there, it tends to be that the foods. Now, of course, in any given aisle, let's just take yogurt, for example, there is a variety of processing levels within that, but generally speaking, that exterior of the perimeter has less processed foods and foods that are going to be closer to what you would find in nature, you know, or from a plant. That question about from a plant. So I think that's really useful. I think too, you know, you could take this a step too far and think, well, it can only be something that grows naturally and can't be processed at all. And I need to be making my own bread and, you know, everything, churning my own butter. It's not that. But I think if you can identify a few things that you would tend to go towards those center aisles that either can be made in a less processed way that you can get from someone more locally. I am fortunate enough to live close to and be able to afford shopping at a farmer's market. And so. And there is a baker there who makes delicious bread. It is minimal, minimally processed. And I can, I can do that instead of buying the stuff that is shelf stable for months. Yeah. So if you can identify a few things that you eat regularly and that you and your family rely on and you can have those be a little bit less processed, you can feel better about using those and, and not have to have everything come from scratch. Yeah, that's a good point. And just recently I've been more aware of like the Forever foods. Right. Where it's like you buy these pastries and they're good for three months. Like that's not normal. You know, like if I were to bake something in the oven, it's good for about five days and then it starts to grip some mold, you know. So, yeah, just being cognizant of it of like, oh, how long have I had this food? And it hasn't changed any condition. Maybe I should look into this. You know. That's right. I think we had a young woman who. Sorry, we had a young woman from Germany who lived with us for a year and it blew her mind. She did not understand like that you have had this bread for weeks and it looks exactly the same. This, you know, she just like naturally thought this is weird. Yeah. And we, we grew up with it and it just doesn't, doesn't raise any red flags. Yeah. And I think right now, like seed oils, they're a hot topic. We're hearing about it all the time. Like, what do you have any data on, like the basics of it or what really goes into it? For someone who's oblivious at this point, they're like, they've just been eating what they've been eating because they think it's normal. What do they need to know? That is a great question. This is not something I feel really, really well educated to give you great advice on. I have not looked at the data. I know that there are foods that. And oils in particular, again, because of the way that they're processed, can lead to higher levels of inflammation in our bodies. And I think that is one of the big things that people are worried about. I use cold pressed extra virgin olive oil when I'm cooking. We use Sometimes we'll use an avocado oil, but very little. I use real butter, not a margarine substitute. And we do keep some canola oil in our house as a vegetable oil, because sometimes we will have something that calls for that. But that is not an oil that I rely on often. And again, I feel like if I was cooking everything, every meal, every day in an oil where there's some suggestion that, hey, maybe this is doing some internal damage that I can't see or feel, I might reevaluate that. But I think again, if you can use a mix of different oils and, and you're using something like a seed oil, that again, is for small quantities and not, not every day, the stress that you could send yourself into worrying about that might be as bad as having a little bit of that oil itself. Yeah, yeah. And it's not just cooking. So it's like, yes, what you're going to put in the frying pan, but it's in the ingredient list is really what I've been noticing. It's in everything. And so how does inflammation show up in the body? Like, I'm pretty healthy. I don't have any visible signs inflammation, I would say. But for someone who might be, you know, experience eczema or something, what are some common things that you see inflammation affecting? That would be, again, another great question, and one that as a nutritional epidemiologist and not an MD I am less well equipped to answer. I have personally gone and had markers of inflammation, blood markers done. So I've seen a. A naturopath who has taken a lot of measures of like C reactive protein in particular, which is a meas of inflammation in the body. And so there are some simple blood tests that you can do to actually determine that it could show up as. Certainly we have external symptoms when our body internally is not functioning at its ma at its max capacity. I used to experience a little bit of pain. And you just like, what, what is this? My husband had a pain in his foot and a lot of that was, was due to inflammation and stress. And so sometimes there are external. Again, in my personal experience, and not speaking as a physician who cares for people, sometimes there are external symptoms like that, and sometimes, sometimes they, they really are just internal and it is affecting the way that our cells are functioning and processing. And it can kind of age us without externally aging us. Yeah, exactly. And it's just your body's way of saying, I don't like this. I'm uncomfortable. You know, something isn't right with what you're fe me, I'm starting to malfunction a little bit. It's kind of like one of the first markers I guess you would see on the outside and just going back to seed oil. So I'm not an expert either. I just listen to other experts who sound like they know what they're talking about. So definitely, if you're listening to this, please go do your own research. But what I've heard from, like, Joe Rogan's podcast and others is it's basically like a lot of it is a byproduct from World War II engine lubricants. Like, that's what margarine is. And I'm like, whoa, like crazy. Like, rats don't eat it, ants won't go to it it. Whereas, like, you put real butter on the counter and it gets infested or whatever. Like, it's a natural food. So if nature doesn't want it, maybe that's a signal we shouldn't be eating it either, which is always interesting. And then for a lot of them, they're so highly processed that they're actually rancid, which I just think is astounding that, like, our government allows this to happen. Hey, I'm sorry to interrupt, and I hope you're enjoying this episode of the Work Like a Mother podcast. Real quick. I just want to remind you guys, if you are working worried about missing an episode, you don't have to worry anymore because we are creating a weekly email that's going to go out automatically every single time there's a brand new episode. And this email is going to have everything you need to know about this week's featured guests. It's going to have all of the links and the resources that we're going to talk about in this episode so you don't have to go around and fumble through the show notes, but it's going to be served in your inbox every single week. So if you guys want that access, be sure to click below one time in the show notes today. Sign up for that email and then you'll never have to worry about it in the future. And bonus, if you really love this, we'd love it if you share this with a friend, give us a review on whatever platform you're listening to, and we'll continue to bring new episodes, new information that's going to help you level up your life every single week. RFK Jr going into role and everything. Is there anything in specific you're really looking forward to? You know, I. I think it will Be really interesting to just see. You know, I think anytime there is a change like this to what are the priorities and how, what are the big changes that occur? What does that mean for us on a day to day basis? Sometimes I know there's a lot of interest and attention paid to national politics, but our local politics are just as important and arguably at times more important for our own day to day experiences. And so I think it is important to keep that in mind too, that however you feel about what's happening nationally, there are ways that we can influence what's happening locally and a lot of that can have an impact on us even more so than at a national level. Do you have any examples of like ways to influence local politics? I get to know who are your, who are your town counselors? You know, what is it that they're talking about at those local meetings? What kind of associations or groups or clubs exist locally that are interested in and supporting the kinds of causes that are meaningful to you? How can you get involved in those? You know, I again, there a farmer's market close by, there's a farmers association, we have a lot of farms in the area. What are the things that are happening that are affecting them that in turn would affect what I have access to at my, at my local farmers market. How are zoning laws changing as a result of who is in office locally and what are the potential implications for you and your family? And yeah, so get to know, get to know those people who are close by and who hold those seats of power, if you will, and find out what is, is what, what is of interest to them. Yeah, it's such a good point. It's just to be an informed citizen. And so much of us, we take the backseat and just like to complain and grumble, but we absolutely, we are at a moment, I think generationally as these shift, that it's time to speak up. It's time to say, hey, I really don't like the way this is going. What can be done about it? Not just grumble, but like, let's find a solution. Just thinking about school lunches, right? Like absolutely. That is a local thing, not a federal thing that can be impacted. And there's so many grants out there right now, honestly, about trying to get farm table for schools. One of the problems we have is just like the whole process. We have so many farms in Hawaii, but they're so small that they can't do the whole district at once. Right, that's an issue. And then number two, just like the way that it's transferred and the food and safety regulations, it makes it really, really challenging for farms. And so I think it's like, yes, we have a desire, but we have a wall that we can't get over. Like something has to happen through the government to change that to make it easier. I think what you're talking about too, I think, is being curious. What are those barriers that are preventing this small farm from providing food in this location, which they, you know, maybe they want to do? What, what, what is it that's happening? Where can we have an influence? And it doesn't have to be, I'm right, you're wrong. It's really about, again, bringing that curiosity and a willingness to have a conversation to try to figure out. You know, often we all have a lot more in common and we have similar goals, you know, maybe more than we think. So how can our curiosity serve us and help to serve, you know, again, the causes that are important to us? Yeah, totally. I want to switch gears a little bit back to just helping feed our kids. Right. So the picky eater, we've all, we know one, we know multiple, maybe it's in our household. Right. And our kids go through phases. We know this is true. But I have moms and even like a sister who's just overwhelmed, like she's given up at this point. Another parent told her it's fine and he's going to grow out of it. And so they just accepted it for what it is. What advice do you have for the picky eaters who are like stuck on carbs, basically? That's all that you're eating? Yeah, I, I, I have to imagine that, that this must be so stressful for people who are in that situation. And so if that's you listening, I feel for you because this has got to be so stressful again, because it feels so important that we get it right. And this, I give this advice when I have the opportunity to, and it feels kind of like crappy advice, actually. But my advice to parents who are in a situation with a kid who is especially a truly picky eater at its highest level, is to just keep doing what you're doing. And that means keep offering different foods. Do not give up on that process. That doesn't mean forcing, it doesn't mean coercing, it doesn't mean bribing, but it means continuing to have available those foods that you want to encourage your kids to be willing to try and to expand, you know, the, the diversity of what they're willing to eat. It is really as soon as we give, give, give into that picky eating in the sense of we only are serving those foods and we are not offering others that, that, that we start to, we continue, we can continue to feed that, that picky eating. Yeah. Now with that said, you know, there are a few other things, specific things you can try. Try offering new foods outside of meal time. Again, making foods available when it's not even snack time or it's not meal time. This often when kids come to the table and it's dinner time and they know this is when they're going to eat and then they see foods that they're unfamiliar with, it can cause stress for them and, and fear almost like I'm hungry and I don't know this and I don't really want to eat it. And so they, they clamp down. And so if you can offer those new foods outside of that, offer a taste test, practice taste testing with foods that they love and then try taste testing with foods that they don't. Right. To kind of get in, get familiar with that process. For kids that are truly picky eaters and, and there is a real, often what's underlying that is a fear of just trying something new. And so remember that the, the tastes of new things and the offer of new foods need to be very, very small. A pile of peas when you're trying to get your kid to eat them is not going to be effective. Putting AP near them and just saying that's just for you to, to you can check it out, you can touch it, you can smell it. You do not have to eat that. Alleviating that pressure that they feel that this is a food that they are unfamiliar with and that they then have to eat that can, that can help to free some of that again, fear that they have overeating. You bring up a good point that so much of picky eating is actually emotional, which is really interesting. And I find like, it just tends to be this way. Like moms will be gentler with offering new foods, but then dads can come in with a hammer, just eat it, you know, and like so do you have any tips for helping our spouses or like the partner get on board with this? Oh, this is a great one. This is such a great question. I've actually written on, on my own blog about how to handle these kinds of situations because it is big and when it's with your, your partner, your spouse, that can be super stressful because that is an everyday or can be an everyday kind of conflict. But it could also come from your mom or your mother in law or your, you know, your grandmother or your best friend. You know, it doesn't have to necessarily be your partner and your or your spouse to feel this. I think, I think one of the key pieces is to have a conversation to be curious. Why is it that that is your response? This is where I'm coming from. This is how I feel about this. This is what, this is the reading or the listening or the learning that I've been doing around this topic and why it feels, feels important to me to approach feeding our kids in this way. Tell me about why you're. You want to handle it the way that you do. Yeah. Again, I think if for no other reason, it will help keep the two of you a little closer and feeling like again, it's not my way or no way, but I really want to understand spouse. Why is it that that's important to you and can we come to some other agreement? Yeah. It's like I'm already having one battle with a child. I don't need a battle with my spouse too. Absolutely. It's so hard, hard. But those are all really great tips and I think just big picture perspective, you know, we're doing the best that we can with what we have today. Let's just be a little bit mindful a little bit more every single day. And again, be curious, ask questions, read the labels, read the boxes. Don't just take it for face, cover, value or what. So and so said like I want everyone to do their own diligent research and then switching gears into your company, Kazingo. So tell us about it and what made you start it. Like where did this come from and why a product? Like to me, launching a product is scary. You know, it's so competitive in the marketplace. So tell me about that. Absolutely. And I tend to call myself a recovering academic because I was in the academic world for a long time and I knew nothing about designing a product and developing a product. So, you know, it was, it was out of sheer will that this, you know, came into the world. But it started from my research. So I had been doing all this research on, as you said at the beginning in the introduction, food, dietary patterns and their relationship to health. And this was all pre, pre children. And when I had my first baby and she started eating solid foods, I had this awareness that we have an opportunity when our kids are young and from the moment they start eating really to be a positive influence and have a positive influence on the way that they think about food, food and the way that they're eating. And I didn't know how to do that with my own kids. And so I started reading the literature. What do we know in the scientific literature that tells us how we can help kids develop positive and lifelong relationships with food? And one of the, one of the things that is demonstrated over and over again is to let kids feed themselves, let them be in control of that process. And I looked at the products I was giving my daughter at the time to do this, to feed herself, and I realized that they did not encourage the kinds of behaviors that we want kids to have. And that the, again, the literature suggests is associated with health. And so I decided that I was going to change that. And that is why I produced. Our first product was a spoon. And it's very specifically designed for the way that kids hold and use them, so it makes it easier for them to feed themselves. The, the second and third products that we launched are plates and bowls that are designed around to this idea that we've been talking about, which is multiple exposures. Yeah. So again, it's not lots of literature that says that kids need multiple exposures to a food before it becomes something that they say, oh, I've seen this before. I will eat this without putting up a fuss. Sure. That number when kids are just beginning to eat and they're still young, that averages around 15 times that kids need to be exposed to a food before becomes familiar. And as we get older, that number gets bigger. It just becomes, it takes more time and more exposures. Interesting. So it's very hard as a parent, as we've been talking about, to remember to give new foods and tastes of things and to do that repeatedly. So our plates and bowls are designed around the idea of giving a small space as a reminder to us as parents to provide a small amount of a new food and to do that with regularity. And kids know foods in that space. That's a food that I'm still learning to like. And my safe, my safe foods, they have a big spot on my plate and this, this little spot in my plate, that's just, that's for me to practice something new. Awesome. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. When you look at your spoon, it's like, that's a funky looking shape, but it makes sense. We really are like this grip, you know? That's right. We did baby led weaning with both of our kids. And it's so much fun, but so messy and so, so messy. You've got kids, you know, Three and under. Embrace the mess. Add double the time it's going to take to feed them, and then they'll learn over time. And that's just so good that they need that many experiences to the new food. We can't give it like the second and third time. Be like, you should like this by now. You know, like, okay, let's give it a year and see if they really like it after a year. That's right. And that mess is a challenge. That mess is. It is a challenge. I. I totally understand. It's also unfortunate because that. That mess, especially with their hands and. And feeling a food and getting it on their face and smelling it, that is. All of those count as exposures. And they're all really important. We make connections in our brain between the feel of something and then when it goes into our mouth. We are creating connections there. And some of them are also emotional connections that we make even though it's something we're doing physically. So while it can feel like a real pain, we. It is such a wonderful gift you're giving your kids to be able to experience food in that way. Yeah, totally. And to have fun with it. You know, you can get those little cookie cutter things and make your food fun, and it looks totally different, but it tastes the same. You know, just. We get some side tricks every now and then. Do you know the data about how often kids taste buds change? Is there a statistic on that? There is a statistic on that. I have not. I. I have not looked it up recently. I think as an adult, it's every couple of weeks, even hours change. But I think as. As kids, it might be. It might still be that. It might be a little bit faster, but it is something. Couple of weeks, their taste buds are changing. Yeah. Young kids like bitter foods in a way that we don't. And sour. They respond very differently. And so it's good. Again, it's good to give all of those flavors early and to give them practice with that. And just because they make that face, you know that. Yeah. When they're little, it doesn't mean they don't like it. It's just. It's just a response that they're having. That's good. And I think I saw in your media kit something about like, oftentimes we're overfeeding our kids. Kids. Do you have any insight on that? And maybe it's like, especially in infants or like, is this happening all the time? It's. It is easier to do with preverbal kids. Sure. They have signals of fullness that we, if we're not careful, we can easily miss. It's things like again, if I'm spoon feeding you as an infant, it is not being willing to open your mouth. If they're hungry and that spoon is coming at them with food, they're going to open their mouths, they're going to reach for it, they are going to signal that they, that you know, that yes, I want more of that. Not opening their mouths or even kind of keeping them closed, turning their head away, starting to play differently than just exploring the food to put it in their mouths, but really making a mess. My kids never threw food, but that would be a sign. And I, if my kids did that, I would say to them, even again, if they were preverbal, I would say, okay, that tells me that you're done with eating. And we would take it away and we would try again a little bit later. You know, throwing food is not a behavior that we need to indulge, but we also don't need to punish them for it. They're little. We just say, this is what you're communicating to me and we're going to make a different decision. There are some great videos out there of folks who, who have will can very clearly demonstrate this is what it looks like when your kids are full. And it's one of the things that letting your kids feed themselves over overcomes is that you are saying, I trust you to make this decision. When you stop eating, you'll be done rather than me needing to try to re read your signal signals. Yeah, I think we also, when they get a little bit older, toddlerhood a little bit, you know, toddlerhood and beyond, and they can be asking for food. We don't. It is a rare situation and I think probably for most of us listening, our kids are not going hungry. There is hunger in America, no doubt, but our kids are not going hungry. And we don't have to indulge every snack request just because it was made. You know, kids don't need to eat that often and they do need to eat smaller meals and more regularly when they're little. You know, they have smaller stomachs, they process their food more quickly. But not every request for food needs to be, needs to be acknowledged and, and you know, and food given. Yeah. And one of the tips I always use is like, well, what protein have you had today? Because you probably just had carbs so far and that's why you're having a sugar crash. Like that's kind of the conversation we have, then I'm like, okay, go have a meat stick then. Tell me if you're really hungry again. Or go chug a glass of water, Tell me if you're hungry, hungry again. You know, because sometimes it's a thirst cue, but they just reach for the snacks instead. Absolutely. Having like a first line, second line of defense before the, the snack I think is a really good habit to try. Yeah. And like you said, making sure that when they are eating that there are at least two food groups and, and ideally a protein and, or a healthy fat that are a part of that, that will provide that lasting, sustained kind of energy will, will really help with those consistent requests. Yeah, for sure. And I'm just reminded too, like when they're in that messy, you know, like learning to eat phase, when you're in it, it feels like this is going to be your life forever. And you get so impatient and so frustrated and by three months they're a different kid again. They change so fast. So just if there's any mamas out there with the little ones, just a reminder, like just stick it out. Your kid's going to learn so fast and before you know it they're gonna be holding their own spoon and you don't have to spoon feed them anymore and they'll learn how to be cleaner. You know, you can even teach them how to up their own tray. Like it will get there. And then now I've got like my nine year old cooks his own eggs every morning. Like it's a different game, you know, it totally changes. Yes. So it's been fun, but it does go by so fast. So just embrace the season that you're in I think is really important. Well, to wrap this up, what do you want someone to do after listening to this? They've heard these things. They're like, oh yes, I need to like clean up my act a little bit because I am the mirror. But also I want to encourage my kids to really learn how to feed themselves responsibly. How do they move forward from here after listening today? Well, there are, there are tons of resources. One message I would like to give though is that just because I am advising you to do something doesn't necessarily mean it's advice you need to follow or that you should follow. I, I, I, I should talk more about, or could talk more about. I, I like to talk about this. The, the Venn diagram of evidence helps me identify goals I have for myself, for my kids. Yeah, that advice that overlaps with that evidence can help me Figure out how to achieve those goals. But there's a third ring of that Venn diagram that is really thinking about my and my family's values. And any advice I am being given that doesn't help me achieve the specific goals I am looking for and align with my values use. It's not advice worth following. Set it aside. You know, it was like there are people who would argue that if you have a child who doesn't eat vegetables and you want them to get more vegetables, just hide them, cook them in things, lie to your kids, blend them up and put them in their pasta sauce. That doesn't align with my values and would never be advice that I could follow in the long term. And it would help me achieve my goals of getting my kids to eat vegetables. Vegetables. But I would feel a particular way about doing that. I wouldn't be able to keep doing it. So I think that's just. I want to give everybody permission to say, yeah, I understand that that's advice that. That might help. Doesn't. Doesn't feel right to me, doesn't fit my family's values. So that. That's one thing in particular. If there are things that resonate that I've said and people are interested in learning more on my website, which I imagine, you know, you have access to and can link to and show not notes. I have a bunch of videos and blog posts that write about these topics. There's an email address, reach out to me. I love having these conversations with people. I would love to answer specific questions, talk to friends. There are registered dietitians and pediatricians. And if you're getting advice again from those folks, that feels like I really need some more or it doesn't align, my gut is telling me, no know, yeah, that. Listen to that. That's really good advice because there is so much coming from all angles at all times. And then you're trying to go and face the grocery store and it's just overwhelming. So it's just realizing, like, oh, what's actually the priority for my family's feeding schedule and what are they eating? You know, like really just identifying that and then tunnel vision, you know. That's so good. Well, every episode I end it with a fun rapid fire. So what is your Starbucks or your order? Do you even go to Starbucks sometimes? Not so much anymore, but mine would be a drip coffee. Yeah. Simple black. Yeah. Okay. What do you make for dinner if it's last minute? Oh, that would probably be rice bowls. Some rice and whatever vegetable is in the fridge. And Then some kind of protein that we have on hand. Love it. Okay, what's your favorite? Go to department of Target. And do you have a favorite designer there? Oh, gosh. Department of Target. You know, I love. I spend so much time in my kitchen. I love being in my kitchen. I like having tools that help being in the kitchen feel more fun, more enjoyable, easier. I love to bake, especially with my youngest. So it would probably be the kitchen aisle and I can't pull out a specific designer. Okay, cool. That's fine. Name a book or a podcast you'd recommend to our audience and why. Oh, my gosh. Give me a second on this. You had a bunch of books on your shelf too. Maybe there's one in there that's like. I do have a bunch back there. You know, a really great book. It's called it. I imagine you can still get this book. Dina Rose is the author and it is called It's not about the Broccoli. Okay. And she is writing about this idea that getting your child to eat broccoli is not the goal. Getting your child to have a positive relationship with food really is. And if we are so focused on them just eating the broccoli, we're going to miss that bigger picture. So it's. It's a great title. I love the title. And it has really useful tips in. In that book as well. So it's not about the broccoli. Great book. Okay, I'm gonna look that one up. TikTok or Instagram? Instagram. Okay. And what's your handle? Kaya Duffy. Pretty simple. Yeah. And Kazingo kids, if anyone's interested in the. In the products. But my personal is Kaya Duffy. Where do they get the product? Just your website or is it at Amazon? Where is it? Our website and Amazon? Yeah, there are some small boutiques around the country that carry it. And we were in Bye Bye Baby before it went under. Nostalgia. That's a whole other podcast. Big box stores and retail. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Well, thank you so much for your time. I really hope this encourages mamas and parents out there to just think a little bit, you know, and just be like, hey, there's a better way to do this, and how can I be the best support as I raise my child? You know, this is a big topic and something that we're faced with all the time. Can't escape it. So I really hope this helps. But we appreciate you and we'll have all of your information in the link below and we'll definitely stay in touch. Yeah, that sounds great. Thank you for the opportunity. It's wonderful. Bye.