Mid-Career Mastery: Accelerate Your Success | Cynthia Bentzen-Mercer | Work Like A Mother Podcast, Episode 31

In this episode of the Work Like A Mother Podcast, host Marina Tolentino is joined by Dr. Cynthia Bentzen-Mercer, a dynamic leader and co-founder of Zeal of the Heel. Cynthia shares her journey from corporate executive to author and coach, offering invaluable insights into mid-career transitions and the importance of taking actionable steps towards future goals. Drawing from her book, "Now Near Next," Cynthia discusses the power of writing lists to create positive momentum, the unique challenges women face in male-dominated industries, and how to leverage natural gifts and talents. This episode is a must-listen for ambitious, overextended professional women seeking to navigate their careers with intention and purpose.

Mentioned in this episode:

Mel Robbins Podcast: https://www.melrobbins.com/podcast 

Think Again by Adam Grant: https://adamgrant.net/book/think-again/ 

Marina Tolentino
https://www.marinatolentino.com/
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Transcript

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But here was the saving grace. The saving grace was the book that I wrote was all about, start working on your future today. And so I journeyed with the reader of what I thought would be my next three to five years from now. It's just, I'm taking those baby steps, baby steps, baby steps. And one of the first steps was just to write the list. There is joy, scientific data in just writing the list. That takes us out of a rut. Yeah, it's liberating. It's liberating because it starts to feel more actionable when you put it on paper. As women, we tend to take on the lion's share of the caregiving, largely because we want to. Right. That's not an indictment of men. It's largely because we want to. But we want to have it all. And so that becomes just this really difficult period of career once again, start working on your future today. Even if it's seven minutes a day, more than five, less than ten. Think about where those natural gifts and talents are and what are the things in life that would allow you to do more of that. All right. Today I have someone amazing, a woman who has had a whole career on her own and is now in her second phase, kind of giving back to what she's learned. So today I have Cynthia Benson Mercer, PhD, mother to two adult children now who are ages 31 and 26. She's a co founder, along with Kimberly rath of the founders of Zeal of the Heel. And Cynthia is amazing. She has navigated a career as a chief executive in gaming, hospitality, and healthcare while raising those two kids and pursuing an advanced degrees. Cynthia's also experienced all the joys and challenges of trying to have it all, which is exactly what we talk about on this podcast. So it's going to be super great conversation. But really, today, what she does is through keynotes, workshops, retreats, and executive coaching, and a new book called now Near Next, Cynthia and Kimberly are inspiring and empowering women to energize self agency, ignite career intentionality, and actualize your potential. So that's a firework to start. Thank you so much for having me. It's so exciting to be here. Yes. No, this is so good. And just, I got a little glimpse of your book. I'm so excited to order it right after this because I think everything that you're saying and speaking to is so relevant in 2024. So before we dive into all the nitty gritty, like, who, who do you help? How did you get here? What was your career like? Yeah, wow, that's a. That's a big question. I'll start with who I help. I help ambitious, overextended professional women to really get through that mid career restlessness and actualize all of their beautiful gifts and talents. So that's my niche, which is a big audience. I mean, that's a wide range. Yeah. As you mentioned, I spent 35 years in the corporate world. Really cut my teeth in human resources, so always was in human resources training and development, and then generalized. And toward the end of my corporate career a year ago as chief administrative officer, and always worked in predominantly male led industries for the most part, was one of the only, if not the only, female on the executive team. And for a long time, not of late, sadly, but I was the youngest as well. So really had that lived experience of what it's like to try to balance all of the things coupled with being a woman in some of these really male dominated environments, which is a whole new level of complexity. Yeah, for sure. And I think. I like to think that we've come a long way. Right, like that our dads are helping out more and they really are juggling 50 50, but it still hasn't quite shifted that way. So it's so interesting. I'm actually watching suits right now. I'm sure you've seen it. I love it. I love it. So the whole complex with Jessica being barren and old and all that, I was just like, no, throw that out the window. Any difference, just funny. Exactly. And I love this question that I always ask my people is, what are you where you thought you'd be five years ago? And you said, you're here much sooner than you thought you'd be. Tell me how you feel. Like that went faster or like, what changed. Yeah. So I had a vision that I would work in my corporate role until late fifties, maybe early sixties. It kind of depended as long as I felt like I was still really contributing and adding value, I was really in my stride. And a couple of, well, a couple of years ago, we started to go through a CEO change as part of a normal succession plan that I actually helped build the succession plan starting a decade ago. And it started to get those uncomfy feelings. The little bit of the vibe was, is this going to be a good fit for me under the new leadership? And that's when I decided to write the book, because I needed something that was really filling my cup outside of the day to day of the job and fast forward. Just as I was turning in my manuscript a year ago June, so June of 23 to editing, my position was eliminated under the change of control. And the first thing that went through my mind was, oh, my gosh, at 55, turning 56 at that time, I'm going to have to start all over. I'd been there for twelve and a half years. I'm single, empty nester. I'm thinking I'm going to have to relocate. I've got all of this that I'm going to have to start over at the stage of life. And it seemed exhausting and daunting. But here was the saving grace. The saving grace was the book that I wrote was all about, start working on your future today. And so I journeyed with the reader of what I thought would be my next three to five years from now. So three to five years from now, I thought, I will be doing speaking, writing more books, executive coaching. And in that moment, the realization was, I have the blueprint. I just need to accelerate it. So when I read your. When I read the question about, are you where you thought you'd be, you know, five years from now or what? Five years ago, I was like, gosh, no. I thought that would be five years from now, not right now. Wow, that's crazy. Okay, so now I have questions. Because you did it so fast, what helped you accelerate? Like, how did you figure that out so fast? So. And it really is the premise of everything that I want women to think about and really hope that I can inspire one woman at a time, which is by defying divine intervention or forethought or the world's coming together, you know, the stars aligning. The book gave me the opportunity to practice the evidence based methodology, which is identify what's next, whatever that aspiration is. It could be a degree. It could be a lateral move, it could be a promotion, it could be a new skill set. You decide. Figure out the timeline again. You decide. But start making positive momentum toward it today, not when the kids go off to kindergarten or graduate college or the spouse lends their dream job today. And so I did that. I worked toward getting my certification in executive coaching. I started the book. I, um, began to do the little things that while I had a very demanding day job, that outside of that, I could still start putting some positive momentum and energy toward my next. Even though I thought it was going to be three to five years from now. Yeah. And because of that, I was able to accelerate. Because of that, in that moment, I was able to say, okay, well, I have my certification. I've. The book is in editing, I've been making progress. Now I just need to hit the accelerator. Now instead of three years, I'm going to. I'm going to make this happen in nine months. Yeah. It also helps when you have full time to dedicate to it. Right? So I no longer had a day job, so that definitely mattered. Yeah, no, that's so good. And I think I get a lot of feedback from friends and family who, like, see my life online, and they're like, Marina, you're doing it all. How are you doing it? And it's not that I'm doing it all at once. It's just I'm taking those baby steps. Baby steps, baby steps. So for us personally, we just started a nonprofit. Like, as of april, it was official. Like, oh, congratulations. It feels like this big, big thing, right? Like, how am I supposed to create a board of directors and then an executive board, and then all this fundraising, it's just like, what? Like, it gets so much bigger than it has to be really fast. But I'm only having two to three meetings a week, honestly. And then maybe like, 4 hours a week on research and just, like, brain dumping into things, but nothing's really working yet. But we're, like, in the pre phase, and then from the outside, people might think, oh, my gosh, you're so successful. You're doing it all. And I'm like, I haven't raised $1 yet. Like, I haven't done the groundwork, you know? But it just takes a couple people to meet and align with, and then it's going to unlock. Like, I just know we're, like, in that. I think what you said is just writing the list is such a big part of it because you're taking it out of here onto paper. And I love Mel Robbins. I'm sure you listen to her podcast. So she just did one about, like, getting out of a rut, and one of the first steps was just to write the list. There is joy, scientific data, and just writing the list, that takes us out of a rut. So I think that's right. Good call to action right there. If you guys are listening, just like to hit pause, brain dump a list of things that you want, future. And then out of there, we can, you know, come up with your one, two, and three most priorities. But that's such good advice. So I love that for sure. Yeah, it's liberating. It's liberating because it starts to feel more actionable when you put it on paper. And I love your example because you're saying it's not going to happen overnight. But I'm doing the steps to build towards something that is part of my future while I'm still doing all of this other part of my day job and my home life, etcetera. Yeah, I love that. Hey ladies, real quick, if you are looking for a mentor, I just wanted to remind you that I offer mentorship to entrepreneurs. So if you're someone who has a never ending to do list and you're smiling out of control and feel like business doesn't have a track plan, I want to work with you every single week for a month at a time. It's super simple, but I come from over ten years of experience doing this myself and now I'm willing to give that information back to people. So I've mentored real estate agents, I've mentored wedding photographers, I've mentored other business owners, and they've come from a place of overwhelm mostly. And they really just needed clarity and a couple of action steps to move the needle. And we've seen gigantom leaps and bounds in their business. Like I can't even tell you. So if you're interested and you want to know what that looks like, I want you to go to marinatolentino.com and there's a calendly link there to do a 15 minutes discovery call with me just to see if we're a good vibe check to make sure we're on the same page. And I would love to work with you one on one to really boost your business to the next level. Let's dive back in. So one of the things you mentioned is mid career. And I don't even know how to define that either. So, I mean, I would think your thirties to forties just based on age, but what does mid career mean and why is it important? Yeah, thank you for asking. And, you know, this was an interesting discovery because we knew my co author and I knew what we meant by mid career. And it did not occur to me until it was misinterpreted a couple of times that I was like, oh, it means something different to different people. So let me, let me start by saying what it's not. So it is not related to age, so it's not middle age, so it's not related to age and it's not related to status. So it's not middle management. So sometimes because people think it's professional in career that somehow it has to do with sort of where you are on the ladder. Yeah. What it is instead is it's that three plus decades of a woman's career kind of post emerging leader. So you're through the. I just got out of college, I'm in the grind. Maybe you don't have kids or family responsibilities nearly as much yet. And then around, and we were intentional about not putting an age band on it because it happens at different times for different people. But I would tell you, having had my first child at 26 years old, mid career for me, started at about 26 years old. I graduated college early. I'd already been in the business world for about six years. My family started, and I'm still there because it goes until, for women, it's expanding until 60 plus years. It's literally not the emerging and not the encore, which we, you know, I think of retirement. We're retiring. Retirement. So really that encore. But it's that, that's three to four decades where life is complex. Yeah. You're taking care of someone, whether you have children of your own or you're the best auntie in the world, what have you. You perhaps have a spouse or significant other, a partner that you take care of, aging parents, et cetera. As women, we tend to take on the lion's share of the caregiving, largely because we want to. Right. So that's not a, that's not an indictment of men. It's largely because we want to, but we want to have it all. And so that becomes just this really difficult period of career. Yeah. And that's the meat of it. Right. That's like doing it. We're at our peak productivity. We're so ambitious, which means we keep adding more things to our plate because we're like superwoman for some reason in our brain. But getting that we're actually human, you know? Exactly. It's so good. And you bring up a good point, too, just about, like, the children and stuff. So I want to talk about your experience raising kids while having a high performing career. What was that like for you? Tough. You know, I mean, I would be lying if I said that there weren't times along the way where there was just enormous guilt. It was, I had a very demanding position when the kids were young and through their, you know, adolescent years, traveled a fair amount in some of my early career. My husband and I divorced when the kids were ten and 15, and he moved out of state. So I really became pretty much a single mom at that point, which was, again, a very demanding time in my career journey. So it wasn't easy. I think a lot of women experience what I did, which is you feel guilty when you're at work and you feel guilty when you're home and you're not at work. And. But there's so many beautiful lessons in that, and we try to cover that in the book, which is have boundaries, make time for yourself. Um, you can't. Or from an empty vessel. And so what are you doing for your investment in you, et cetera. And so easy to say that it's so hard when you're in the, in the middle of it. Um, but the biggest lesson, I think, is to. It's all choice. And when you can turn the narrative from I feel guilty about being on my phone so much, or I feel guilty about traveling over that special day two. I made that choice because. And owning that choice because unless it's something that's terribly violating, it's a choice that you've made to provide for your family. It's a choice that you've made to better the future, to, to give better for those around you, etcetera. And that alone can be very liberating. But I would tell you it was hard. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because you have. And it's always going to be there, that comparison syndrome. Right? You're comparing yourself to the stay at home mom who gets to spend 24/7 with their kids and think that she's super mom or whatever, but you don't really find every curtain is a woman that's just struggling and just trying to keep every float. It's so good. You have this quote on your site that's just. It says it all. But we expect women to work like they don't have children and raise children as if they do not work. It's just like, absolutely. What a contradiction. And that's why we're in this tug and pull constantly of feeling overwhelmed. And then, well, if I take self care, then it means my children aren't being cared for. And how the heck are we supposed to do it all? Because it's the constant. And so that's why I do what I do. That's why you have shown up on this platform, because we understand there's a way to do it. We're on the other side of it now. Yes. So it's giving back to that next generation to say, like, wait, don't make the mistakes we made. You know, there is a way. But I think one of the biggest ways is just accepting what you've chosen for your choice and then realizing, is this the lane I want to stay in, or do I want to make some different choices? To get to a different place. So I think a lot of times we tell ourselves there has to be sacrifice. Like, I have to struggle in order to feel successful. I have to struggle in order to be a working mom. And you kind of stay in this victim mode. Right? Tell women to get on the other side when they're like, well, I want to still work, and I want to provide. Like, I don't have a choice for some woman. Like, I have to. Right. How do we show our children that love instead of feeling like, oh, it's a trade off, and they're picking work over me? Like, is there scripts you give or what advice do you have to that woman? The biggest thing, I think that that is helpful and nothing is. Nothing is perfect, right? So. But it gives women a framework, is we use this framework around, if you can think about an x axis and a y axis and the. The y axis being the vertical axis, being internal satisfaction, this thing I've been asked to do, I think I should do whatever. Whatever gives me internal satisfaction. It feels good. It's a play to my strength. I have fun when I'm doing it. It helps accelerate my next etcetera. And then the x axis or the horizontal access. Being external, perceived value, I believe it's important to the school, it's important to my employer, it's important to my neighborhood, my church, et cetera. When you think about it in that framework, what women unfortunately do is they put everything in the top right. They put everything in as though it has value to everyone and everything, right. Instead of going, I really don't like doing that thing. I'm really not great at doing that thing, even though it has. I think it has high perceived external value. And so when you strike to break down those quadrants, you give yourself permission to make different choices. In other words, don't give up the things you love, even though they may not have external value or perceived external value. I made my kids lunches every day from kindergarten through senior year of high school. They liked it. And. And I felt like it was a mommy thing. It was something I could do, and I loved doing it. I'd have friends say, they're teenagers. They can make their own lunch. You have a busy job. I'm like, no, but it fills my cup. I like doing it. Right. But there's also those bottom right things that, yeah, the school thinks it's important. It's the stay at home mom that gets to volunteer in the kids classroom. I wasn't very good at that. When they finally did get the opportunity to do it. Frankly, I didn't really like it. What I could do is I could pen a check for dollar ten towards school supplies, or I could bring, you know, tissues and markers to the teacher to help add to things instead of volunteering, which I really didn't have the time to do and I really didn't like doing because I wasn't very good at it. And then remember that no is a complete sentence. Oh, preach. Yes. Right. No is a complete sentence. One thing I did learn recently from another podcast that I heard some people talking about, and I've adopted. I love this is so often we accept doing things that people ask us to do for them, and it's down the road. It's 30 days from now or several weeks from now, we're like, yeah, yeah, I can do that. And then that day before the day comes and we're like, oh, my gosh. Why in the world did I say yes to that? So this advice, which I think is magic, is when you're asked to take out the neighbor's dog for a week or whatever, it is something, think about it as if it's tomorrow. And if you get that same, oh, my gosh, that sounds awful feeling. Or, like, I don't really have the time and energy to do that. They know. Yeah, so good. And I think so often, even if you just say, like, I need some time to think about it, or I got to check with so and so, like, under the bus, and say, you got to check with them, and then it gives you time to respond. Right. Never get that feeling of grudging. Like, whatever. It's a no. Instant no. Yes. I. Unless they're like your sister and they're like, life and death situation. Right. Agree 100%. Oh, my gosh. We're just such people pleasers because we think everything's important all the time, like you said. That's right. Right quadrant. So that's such a good teaching lesson. Yeah, that was really good. And I think one of the things I wanted to ask you, too, is, like, workplace changing. Right? So for the woman who's in the office, they're the corporate job, or even someone like me, they're at home entrepreneur. We're doing it all on our own. Do you feel like things are changing in the workplace? Or, like, how was it ten years ago? How is it today? What do you think? I wish I could answer that with great affirmation that it's changed dramatically, but unfortunately, it hasn't. Here's Covid. Taught us a lot from the perspective of, if you have portable work, it can be done anywhere, right? For the most part, and done with high productivity. The unfortunate thing is the belief in that concept is lagging. So when Gartner did research, asking supervisors and leaders, pardon me, who they would naturally promote or accelerate in their career, it was the people that were showing up in the office every day because there's this still this lagging belief that there's, that your drive and your motivation and all of those things are somehow tied to showing up in that space on a day to day basis. So I think it's work in progress. I mean, I think it's just something that we're going to have to continue to chip away to where leaders understand men and women. Because sometimes women can be difficult on other women, too, especially if they didn't have grace given to them. You know, I mean, I could be the person that said, listen, nobody gave me time off or let me work from home when I was raising kids. Why should I let you? You know, I don't take that approach. But some do. And there's many men who still have a very old school mentality about where. Where work happens and productivity happens and judge one's value and one's commitment by FaceTime. So I think it's slow. I think it requires us all continuing to work for and advocate for and talk about, and we've got to change the rules together. I also still think that women have to show up, though. I mean, I think the bottom line is, pick your moments, pick your spots. You cannot just be completely off the radar because you will be off the radar. So, you know, we can, we can be mad about that. We can think that that's unfair, all the things, but it is reality. And so if you continue to have a desire and aspiration to move ahead, you have to choose your moments to still have that FaceTime. Hey, I'm sorry to interrupt, and I hope you're enjoying this episode of the work like a mother podcast. Real quick. I just want to remind you guys, if you are worried about missing an episode, you don't have to worry anymore because we are creating and we email that's going to go out automatically every single time there's a brand new episode. And this email is going to have everything you need to know about this week's featured guests. It's going to have all of the links and the resources that we're going to talk about in this episode. So you don't have to go around and fumble through the show notes, but it's me served in your inbox every single week. So if you guys want that access, be sure to click below one time in the show notes today, sign up for that email, and then you'll never have to worry about it in the future. And bonus, if you really love this, we'd love it. If you share this with a friend, give us a review on whatever platform you're listening to, and we'll continue to bring new episodes and new information that's going to help you level up your life every single week. Yeah, that's a good reminder. And I think that's just a recall of, like, what do you really want? Do you want. Do you want to go up the chain? What is this, a lateral move? What are we going to do? Right? And for someone who's like, I just got the promotion. I just achieved this thing. I just got my degree again. Like, where do they go next? Like, I have a sister who's in this situation, and she's like, I'm at the top. Like, I don't know where to go from here. What advice do you have for someone to figure out what that is? How do they figure that out? I think it gets back to this notion of, start working on your future today and what. What trips women up. One is if they're in a really comfortable place. I love my job. I love my company. I love my boss. Right. All the things it feels like. Why would I invest precious energy and time toward a future when I'm really comfortable where I am? Or, like your sister? It's like I've kind of reached the top of my game. I had felt that way in my corporate career. I mean, I was at the pinnacle of my career. I didn't. There wasn't another title I wanted, another thing that I wanted. But it's at that point, it's what else fills your cup? Where else do your talents express themselves? Would it make sense to sit on a nonprofit board, or a for profit board, for that matter? Are you at a place where you can do volunteer work that you've never been able to do before because life was too chaotic and complex? I've always wanted to be able to spend time doing different things from a volunteer perspective. Now I have that time, and so I can be intentional about putting that into play. But it's those things where you're still thinking about what could be next. And it's thinking outside the lane, right? It's thinking. Not just that it's a ladder, but it is a lattice. So is there a new skill set or a way that I want to widen my seat or widen my worldview? Is there something completely outside the corporate world that I've always want to do? Write a book or start a podcast. Right. Or. Or travel. Yep. No, that's so good. I think it has to be. I think sometimes you have to look beyond. Right. That lane. Yeah. And just. Yeah. It's expanding instead of tunnel vision. Now, we're going wide perspective here. And I have a selfish question because I think my kids are little still, so four year olds and nine year olds, and so we've got a preschooler and almost fourth grader. And so I'm thinking, well, I'll have time to go all in on my career once they leave the nest. Do you feel like that's something we should wait for, or do you feel like, how do we balance it all now? You know, how do we do that? The first part of the answer is absolutely don't wait. Okay. What I would say is this, it's, once again, it's start working on your future today. Even if it's seven minutes a day, it's more than five, less than ten. Because here's the thing. You do it with in whatever pace you can. But the reality is all of the momentum, the energy that you're building toward that next. Even if that next is three years from now. Yeah. Or four years from now. Or when your youngest goes to kindergarten or starts full day school. Right. That's going to happen. That's part of the evolution. And so just with your nonprofit, you're putting little steps in place and moving it forward. It may be that the culmination of that really being taking off is when your youngest is in first grade. That's okay for some people. They want to do that more quickly. Yeah. But the biggest misconception or myth that women are given, women and people of color, I would say both, is put your head down, work hard, and good things will happen. The reality is there isn't a man alive that puts his head down, works hard, and waits for good things to happen. And that is not an indictment of men. That is a. We need to take a page out of their playbook. Yeah. Because they're looking up and they're looking forward and they're racing past us. We're dutifully looking down, working hard, over indexing on performance, trying to be perfect at what we're doing. In the meantime, we're taking care of everyone else around us. Therefore, that's fine. Tap me when you. When you. When I've demonstrated. Yeah. Instead of saying, I'm going to invest seven minutes a day in myself and in my. Whatever my next is, I'm going to read about that topic, or I'm going to start a documentary on that, or I'm going to start researching that thing of interest, or I'm going to take a class that I can squeeze in something that moves you toward that next. That's okay. That's a good reminder because I think I was telling myself that limiting belief of, like, I can go all in, you know, once they graduate, and then it's just me and my husband left, like, we'll have 20 more years together, you know? Right. But it's like, okay, well, when I'm 50, 60, do I want to be going all in? Then I might tired. I don't know. Right. And what have you missed out on? Right. You have this, this, these things that bring you joy and create energy and are good for the world around you. And why would you limit your own potential for the next 18 years or limit the gift that you'd be giving to the rest of the world? How do you do it? In bite size pieces that you feel you can fit in. But the point is you got to look up and you have to be open to the idea that investing is you, is good for everyone else around you, that you're not taking away from your kiddos and your spouse. You are actually showing up as a better version of yourself because you're nurturing and exercising those talents. Yeah. And I always tell myself, too, I'm setting an example of what it looks like for hard work, but also balancing the home life and being able to be present. I think that's the biggest things that we are skipping over, is that your presence is everything to our children. And just 20 minutes a day, guys, that's all they need. You know, just contact, a longer hug, whatever it is, put the phone down. Now that your children are adults, have they reflected with you about their time as children, as you work so hard? Like, what has been their feedback as they go into their careers? Oh, that's a really great question. Nobody's asked me that before. I didn't. I had a really fun LinkedIn live with my daughter, actually, several months ago, and she's 31. She'll be 31 this Wednesday. Has three children of her own, while her full time role is stay at home mom. She has a whole lot of side hustles, so she's very busy. And she's a singer, so she does a lot of musical theater and bands. I think what she would, she loved, first of all, they love to tease me, right? So any opportunity to make fun of what I didn't do, well, they're going to. They're going to take their shot. But I think it really taught her choice. I mean, she did not follow in my, in my corporate footsteps. She wanted to be a stay at home mom. That's what, that has always been a dream of hers. But she also appreciates her independence and her gifts and talents and finds ways to do those things in addition to being a stay at home mom. And she has a very supportive spouse, my son, too. In my keynotes, I give lots of funny examples of when my kids really called me out on not being present. And those were hard moments, right, when you realize, oh, my gosh, that stung. But recently, he and I were texting about something and he was trying to create something that represented me. And I said, well, what words come to mind? And he said, strong, courageous, a single mom who somehow was able to balance it all. And I was like, oh, my goodness, it was so great to hear, you know, because it doesn't always feel that way. I think the lesson in that for all of us is we're all doing the best we can with what we've been given. And if we're showing up and giving love and attention to the best of our ability to those around us, it speaks for itself. That's what your kids, your spouse, your people around you will remember about you. Not that you were late getting dinner on the table or you forgot to wash their, you know, gym clothes or whatever other thing that happens on the daily basis that makes us feel like somehow we failed. Mm hmm. No, it's so true. So much of the mundane does get forgotten, and it's the consistency. Right. The character building, that's what's going to stick with them. That's such a good reminder. Well, this has been so, so good, and I don't want to give too soon, but what's one thing that you would advise for someone to take action today? They, like, they listen to your story. They heard you've got a book now. What do you want them to do after this? I'd love them to buy the book. That'd be a great. That would be a great next step. It's available on Amazon. And there's a companion guide. You don't have to have the companion guide. You can use a journal or a notebook or anything. What I personally love about the companion guide, and I use it myself, is it literally walks step by step. And it creates just this really nice journal that marries with the book as you're going through it. I also tell people to go through the book at their pace. For some people, it's a chapter by chapter, and take each one slow, section by section, fit it into your life. But really, what I would say beyond that self serving comment is think about what it is that you do spontaneously, consistently with excellence, that makes your heart sing. Those are your natural gifts and talents. So if you love selling, or you love communicating, or you love solving puzzles, or you love helping resolve conflict, what are those things that you do spontaneously? Consistency consistently with excellence that make your heart sing, start writing those things down. And when you're having those moments of reflection on what's next, think about where those natural gifts and talents are and what are the things in life that would allow you to do more of that. Because at the end of the day, that is what's going to make you a fulfilled, vibrant, joyful human to whomever is in your circle. Yeah, that's so good. I want everyone to hit pause and then go take a second, drop that in your notes because I just feel like you're going to skip it and then forget. That might have been the most important thing to do right now is to just reflect. We need to slow, break down and just, like, marinate on some things sometimes. That's exactly a book. It's like, we'll zoom through it and then we're like, check. I read another book this week. No, no, no. Did you actually process? Did you marinate on it? Did you go back? Did you highlight? Did you mark things? So, so good, because you've spent hours and weeks and months on this book, and I think authors don't get the credit that they deserve because it is hard, hard work. So thank you for putting all that love into that. No, I'm so excited for people to just do this, get clarity for what they want, and to start to take a little bit of action every single day. I think it can move mountains. Well, thank you. Well, we wrap up every episode with a fun rapid fire. Okay, ask, what is your Starbucks order? If you go to Starbucks. Oh, I'm so boring. I get an americana drip. Nothing in it. Simple. Okay. Love it. What do you make for dinner? If it's last minute? Sweet potato. Okay. I'm single. Yeah, that's totally a meal. What's your favorite? Go to department of target. And do you have a favorite designer? Oh, favorite. Go to in target. Oh, gosh, that's a toughie probably the activewear, like the workout clothing. And I don't know that I have a favorite, but I do love their yoga pants and sports bras and things like that. It's always so fun. Give me a book or a podcast you'd recommend to our audience and why. Mel Robbins, you mentioned her earlier. I think she has a phenomenal podcast. Gosh, there's so many books. One of the books that is male author, but Adam Grant wrote a book called think differently. I think that's what it's called. Think again. Think again. And what I love about that book is it really challenges you to think about things in different and unique ways, not the way you normally systematically show up. I just think it's a really interesting challenge. That'd be good. And I know for me, I can really get stuck in the mundane again, the habits, and we lose our creativity that way. So it's so good to just snap out of it sometimes. TikTok or Instagram? Instagram. And then where can people find you online most? Would that be perfect? LinkedIn. Our bigger following is on LinkedIn, also Facebook, but we're on Instagram. It's zeal of the heel, which I know will be in your notes, but zeal of the heel on all the socials and probably the least on TikTok. Although I experimented with it, I haven't really mastered it yet. I think it's generational. It is a new muscle, I'll say that. Well, thank you so much for your time again. Like, this was so good. I'm definitely going to take action. I saw you have a quiz on your website and some other, too, so I'm going to go through there and just dive around. But thank you so much. I really appreciate you. Oh, bless you. Thank you so much. It was my pleasure. It was great talking with you. Thank you.